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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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welcome to the skeptic zone episode

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number 384 for the 28th the februari

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2016 Richard Saunders here with you from

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Sydney Australia its last last gasps of

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summer yes the endless summer still

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pretty warm and muggy outside I'm inside

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talking to you what's coming up on this

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week's episode of the skeptic zone we're

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going to kick off with a well I talk I

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gave some years ago who called holes in

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the plot holes in the plot it's all

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about how people preserve their belief

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systems now people especially in the

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psychic realms how they do mental

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gymnastics in order to preserve their

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belief systems and not only psychics and

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people like that but also science

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fiction fans holes in the plot as read

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by me coming up at the top of the show

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following that it's a brief promo for

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our good friend may not at Manor com not

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a you he and his friend Tim Ferguson do

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bunga bunga the bunga bunga podcast so

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here a little bit of a promo from that

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that's pretty funny and insightful stuff

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then longtime skeptic Peter bowditch ah

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yes better known as rat bags from rat

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bags calm he wrote to the editor of a

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local magazine where he lives in Oberon

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New South Wales about the rates of

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vaccination so he's going to read out

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his letter to the editor following that

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it's a report by the good thinking

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Society in the UK checking up on some

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chiropractors making claims about

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chiropractic and colic colic and

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children can chiropractor save the day

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probably not and around off the show

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mullen BB had it again Jane Hansen

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reporting in The Daily Telegraph talks

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about a public meeting in mulund min b

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which is up there where our reporter

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Heidi Robinson lives on the far north

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coast in New South Wales the

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anti-vaccination Heartland anyway Jane

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Hansen reports on a meeting basically to

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promote fear and conspiracy theory

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I'll be reading that out the story from

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The Daily Telegraph thank you to all

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those people buying mr. Katz origami

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jewelry there's a link at skeptic zone

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TV that all goes to help keeping the

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skeptic zone on air or in the internet

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on the line online you know what I mean

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it helps oh and I had an interesting

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inquiry the other day from a radio

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station if you run a radio station

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anywhere in the world and you'd like to

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run an interview or a segment from the

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skeptic zone on your radio station just

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drop me a line if you go to skeptics own

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TV and click the contacts link you can

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see my contact details drop me a line

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and I'm sure it won't be any problem at

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all and before we start the show there

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is an interview with me talking about

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skeptics challenges for vast sums of

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money and skeptics in general and

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psychics and things like that an

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interview with me at the scammer pelusa

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podcast and i'll put a link at skeptic

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zone TV or if you just google scam

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apalooza that's SC a.m. AP al 0 Z a

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podcast you can hear that interview but

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now it's time for me to run downstairs

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see if there are any last crumbs left of

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my mother's peanut butter cookies worth

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every crumb well I'm doing that I hope

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when I begin my talks my public talks at

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skeptical conventions and lectures and

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things like that I often put up on the

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screen a piece of music musical score

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and I ask people in the audience who

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here can play this music if presented

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with it willna piano normally or some

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other musical instrument and quite a lot

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of people put up their hands quite a lot

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of people can read a musical notation

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and can play a piece of music if placed

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in front of them if you're one of those

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people bear that in mind as I discuss

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this topic holes in the plot I call it

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it's all about how the mind fills in

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gaps even with information that isn't

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there this is from a talk I gave way

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back in 2002 i think it was at an

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australian skeptics convention you might

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want to also bear in mind that as they

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say we are storytelling pattern seeking

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animals as far as we know reality is

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continuous and flawless even if we don't

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perceive it in that way there are no

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holes in the plot of reality so to speak

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if someone walks through a door wearing

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a red shirt they do not appear on the

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other side an instant later wearing a

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green shirt however as strange as it may

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seem mistakes do happen from time to

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time in movies and TV programs well it's

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not strange it happens it's having being

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involved in movie and TV programs for

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many years I can assure you it it's not

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strange but when I say strange as it may

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seem it's a bit ironic of course you get

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mistakes and movie and TV programs by

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the very nature of the way movie and TV

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programs are put together a popular

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movie website the Internet Movie

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Database even offers thousands of pages

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of what it calls

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some people take great pleasure in

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watching the same movie over and over

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again to catch possible goofs it's like

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an armchair sport for example goofs

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spotted in the James Bond movie diamonds

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are forever 1971 in the opening scene

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mud splatters over bond as he falls to

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the floor when he stands up his jacket

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is perfectly clean the moon buggy loses

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a wheel but its back on again later when

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Peter Franks arrives at Dover he gets a

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message he parks his car outside an

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office and walks in but the camera crew

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is reflected in the window when bond is

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hanging from the elevator shaft his

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shadow is clearly visible on the rear

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projection screen containing the street

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scene below the helicopter that blows up

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in the desert is originally green as it

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turns away it's red when bond is

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released from the burning coffin shady

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trees shady tree was a character

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diatribe against him about the phony

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diamonds doesn't match the movement of

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his mouth at Dover bond arrives and

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departs in a triumph stag v8 engine when

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he drives away we hear the sound of a

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Triumph Spitfire 2200 cc four-cylinder

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during the opening scene a string can be

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seen attached to the final knife that

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double-oh-seven throws of the guard and

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of course one of the most famous goose

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from that movie is the position of the

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car when bond is on two wheels escaping

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through the streets of Las Vegas but as

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long as you don't take any particular

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movie too seriously really about these

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groups can be a lot of fun for you and

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me holes and the plot or mistakes in

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continuity quite acceptable provided

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they don't turn the story into a fast

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but there are those for whom these sort

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of plot holes are just too much to bear

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people whose lives are entwined in their

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favorite fantasy in the star trek movie

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star trek nemesis the audience sees a

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picture of the young jean-luc Picard and

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Starfleet Academy

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except that he's bald in one episode of

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Star Trek The Next Generation on TV we

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went back in time to when he was

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actually at the academy only this time

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he had a full head of hair okay a bit of

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sloppy writing maybe but if your life is

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wrapped up in Star Trek something like

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this has to have a reason here are some

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reasons put forward by Star Trek fans he

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must have shaved his head for a bet he

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lost his hair for a few months due to a

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rare Vulcan disease the picture was that

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of his clone who shaved his head a

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classic blunder from Doctor Who comes

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with a justification as well in one

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episode the doctor and his friends are

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traveling through space in the TARDIS

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hurdling back through time trying to

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escape being sucked into the Big Bang

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it's not looking good until the doctor

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decides to convert 25 the scent of the

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interior space of the TARDIS into pure

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power in order to give them that extra

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trust they need to avoid disaster but as

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we all know the internal space of the

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TARDIS is infinite how can you have

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twenty-five percent of infinity hmm

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here's how the doctor must have meant

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twenty-five percent of the known

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internal space not the entire internal

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space that makes sense well it did to me

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at the time and that's why I have

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thought it up to fans all these

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justifications are acceptable especially

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to the ones who thought them up in the

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first place but what is it in us that

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sparks the brain to come up with these

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justifications why bother when we know

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it's only a TV show or a movie some

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people are able to quite happily grab

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some popcorn and drink and suspend their

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disbelief while watching the latest

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sci-fi offering I suspect that the vast

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majority of even hardcore fans know when

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to separate fiction from reality but

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maybe not all it's only natural that

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when humans construct stories and even

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go so far as to film a story holes in

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the plot will appear there's not much we

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can do about it nevertheless look at the

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intellectual effort

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to maintain this extra reality for the

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lives of the fans the time and thought

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but goes into filling in the gaps the

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plot lines always leave in their wake

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the more complex and involve the plot

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the more holes and the more time and

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effort needed to justify the apparent

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the apparent errors many fans relish

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this activity and let me say that I for

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one am one of them I love science

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fiction I grew up with Doctor Who star

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trek and many other shows it's very easy

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to slip into that world but so much for

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the fans of this sort of fiction we'll

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take another look at them soon but for

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now how about fans of another kind of

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fiction water diviners it might come as

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no surprise they picked these people to

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help me illustrate a point since I spent

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over a year putting together the great

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water divining DVD and video more

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importantly diviners and divining has

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been studied all around the world and in

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particular in Australia these people the

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water diviners have a real physical

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phenomenon happening right in front of

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their eyes the rods move when these

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people dig water is often found how much

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clearer can it be why do people even

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doubted how could you possibly doubt at

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how many of the diviners a second or

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third generation they watched as their

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parents and grandparents found water and

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they wouldn't lie were there when has

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been the case for over 50 years water

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diviners fail and demonstrating their

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power to find water or metal it is as we

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know not because they lack the magic

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power to do it it's due to other reasons

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any other reasons I'm a conversation

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between James Randi and Dick Smith seen

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in the documentary James Randi in

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Australia available on YouTube what what

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do you reckon I'll say you know if they

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file

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the hell do all the rationalization so

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the rationalizations think you'll be

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amazed what they come up with this

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rationalizations they'll they'll enfoque

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astrological signs unfortunate aspects

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of the moon all kinds of things and also

272
00:13:16,620 --> 00:13:14,949
they'll see negative vibrations yeah but

273
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,630
it was you how can i do that if i get a

274
00:13:21,329 --> 00:13:19,120
sign with us the actual if i get a sign

275
00:13:23,550 --> 00:13:21,339
and say that they're very happy and I've

276
00:13:24,660 --> 00:13:23,560
checked a bit of pot doesn't make much

277
00:13:26,579 --> 00:13:24,670
difference they'll find a

278
00:13:28,170 --> 00:13:26,589
rationalization now I've been 35 years

279
00:13:29,129 --> 00:13:28,180
in this business and you'd think that

280
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:29,139
I'd be able to come up with all the

281
00:13:33,210 --> 00:13:30,730
rationalization I'm surprised yeah

282
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:33,220
dowsers particularly are very adept at

283
00:13:37,439 --> 00:13:34,959
this now to you and me to reasonable

284
00:13:38,910 --> 00:13:37,449
rational logical people they have failed

285
00:13:40,860 --> 00:13:38,920
and there doesn't seem to be any such

286
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:40,870
power but to them they're not acting

287
00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:42,610
logically so what what frustrates me is

288
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:43,990
what's the use of doing this if that

289
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:45,519
we're not going through the only thing

290
00:13:48,809 --> 00:13:47,290
you can do and the only person you're

291
00:13:50,430 --> 00:13:48,819
going to convince of it is I think

292
00:13:52,259 --> 00:13:50,440
particularly the younger generation who

293
00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:52,269
are on the verge they say I wonder does

294
00:13:55,170 --> 00:13:53,860
such a thing really happen or not the

295
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:55,180
old-timers who have believed in this all

296
00:14:00,210 --> 00:13:56,410
of their life they're not gonna change

297
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:00,220
now dick smith later told me that he was

298
00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:02,800
uncomfortable about doing the tests as

299
00:14:07,290 --> 00:14:04,600
he thought it would destroy the

300
00:14:09,809 --> 00:14:07,300
reputations of the diviners Randy told

301
00:14:12,090 --> 00:14:09,819
him not to worry it would not make one

302
00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:12,100
bit of difference to the believers the

303
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,190
diviners or their reputations what must

304
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:17,199
it be like for those people when they

305
00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:20,290
see their powers fail first of all there

306
00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:23,529
is no doubt what so ever but their

307
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:26,260
powers are real and they work therefore

308
00:14:32,509 --> 00:14:29,440
the power did not fail at all it can

309
00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:32,519
never fail it must be another reason

310
00:14:38,519 --> 00:14:35,230
remember all the Viners were happy with

311
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:38,529
the conditions before the test some of

312
00:14:43,199 --> 00:14:41,110
the reasons put forward the water and

313
00:14:45,870 --> 00:14:43,209
the calibration bottle is not the same

314
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:45,880
as the target bottles the underground

315
00:14:51,769 --> 00:14:48,610
streams are interfering some of the

316
00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:51,779
bottles of tap water some have rainwater

317
00:14:58,740 --> 00:14:55,600
you can't divine water on water divining

318
00:15:01,410 --> 00:14:58,750
cannot be put to the test the earth

319
00:15:04,259 --> 00:15:01,420
spirits know when divining is really

320
00:15:07,199 --> 00:15:04,269
needed and that's what it works you're

321
00:15:10,259 --> 00:15:07,209
going to divine using two rods you

322
00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:10,269
cannot divine using only one rod the

323
00:15:16,650 --> 00:15:12,430
static electricity in the bottles

324
00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:16,660
drained out during the day I was nervous

325
00:15:22,199 --> 00:15:19,569
you cannot divine stillwater only

326
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:22,209
running water this isn't the right

327
00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:26,170
grounds for divining sunspots interfere

328
00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:28,870
with divining some metals leave a

329
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:32,920
residue in the box psychics clairvoyants

330
00:15:37,470 --> 00:15:35,920
and tarot card readers like the water

331
00:15:39,629 --> 00:15:37,480
diviners these people have a real

332
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:39,639
physical phenomenon happening right

333
00:15:46,170 --> 00:15:42,720
before their eyes their clients respond

334
00:15:49,230 --> 00:15:46,180
it's as real and obvious to them as any

335
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:49,240
moving rods again what must it be like

336
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:51,490
for these people when they see their

337
00:15:56,670 --> 00:15:53,680
powers fail first of all there is no

338
00:16:00,509 --> 00:15:56,680
doubt whatsoever that their powers are

339
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:00,519
real and they work therefore the power

340
00:16:05,009 --> 00:16:03,279
did not fail them at all there must be

341
00:16:06,990 --> 00:16:05,019
another reason when New South Wales

342
00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:07,000
committee members of Australian skeptics

343
00:16:12,780 --> 00:16:10,120
olinda brand Ian Bryce and myself tested

344
00:16:17,009 --> 00:16:12,790
one psychic she said all her information

345
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:17,019
came from the spooks but what we saw was

346
00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:19,839
real confusion when all did not go as

347
00:16:25,769 --> 00:16:22,750
she expected during the test some of the

348
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:25,779
justifications she and others have used

349
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:28,930
include you the skeptics are

350
00:16:34,259 --> 00:16:32,079
closed-minded there was a wall coming

351
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:34,269
down and your mind was blocking the

352
00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:36,639
psychic energy I was reading somebody

353
00:16:41,550 --> 00:16:38,769
else in the room you cannot take this

354
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:41,560
sort of test seriously the spooks tell

355
00:16:46,980 --> 00:16:44,050
me things if I'm wrong the spooks are to

356
00:16:49,559 --> 00:16:46,990
blame as with divining you cannot put

357
00:16:51,540 --> 00:16:49,569
this sort of thing to the test you are

358
00:16:54,569 --> 00:16:51,550
blocking me with your own psychic power

359
00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:54,579
or energy skeptics are closed-minded and

360
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,370
just don't understand there is another

361
00:17:01,730 --> 00:16:59,680
angle to the psychic reading and this

362
00:17:05,159 --> 00:17:01,740
happens in the mind of the client as

363
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:05,169
famous cold reader Ian Rowland will no

364
00:17:10,049 --> 00:17:07,689
doubt tell you it is the client of the

365
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:10,059
psychic who does most of the reading

366
00:17:15,329 --> 00:17:12,880
even if it's in their own head where you

367
00:17:17,730 --> 00:17:15,339
can see that the client also engages in

368
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:17,740
these justifications if the psychic

369
00:17:23,399 --> 00:17:20,319
tells them something that doesn't really

370
00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:23,409
fit say that they see a pet cat in their

371
00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:26,230
past when there was none the client will

372
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:28,990
almost always forget this statement it's

373
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:30,610
called forgetting the missus

374
00:17:35,250 --> 00:17:33,490
and remembering the hits but even more

375
00:17:39,450 --> 00:17:35,260
interesting is the way in which people

376
00:17:40,860 --> 00:17:39,460
make the reading fit their own lives for

377
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:40,870
example if the client is told about

378
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:43,330
uncle Robert and there was no uncle

379
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:46,000
Robert the client will often make uncle

380
00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:50,710
Robert somehow fit the justification

381
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:53,320
engine kicks in an uncle Robert may well

382
00:17:58,740 --> 00:17:55,570
turn out to be an uncle of a spouse a

383
00:18:01,799 --> 00:17:58,750
friend a TV character anyone called

384
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:01,809
Robert or Bob to whom they can find a

385
00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:04,720
link maybe it's someone they will meet

386
00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:07,540
in the future here the justifications I

387
00:18:12,539 --> 00:18:10,270
used to keep the reading real and to

388
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:12,549
maintain the faith the client has in the

389
00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:15,280
psychic the client has made quite an

390
00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:17,860
emotional intellectual and financial

391
00:18:22,620 --> 00:18:20,049
investment and all of these are in need

392
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:22,630
of protection or as our friend John

393
00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:26,559
Edward would say validation is it any

394
00:18:32,010 --> 00:18:28,780
wonder that psychics are in no doubt

395
00:18:33,810 --> 00:18:32,020
whatsoever of their own powers when in

396
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:33,820
almost every case the client gives them

397
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:36,400
positive feedback even when the psychic

398
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:40,210
is nothing short of pathetic I've seen

399
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:41,770
this firsthand when I attended the

400
00:18:48,419 --> 00:18:45,250
performance of the amazing Valda who

401
00:18:50,340 --> 00:18:48,429
chatted to the dead I'm afraid this was

402
00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:50,350
the best sort of thing she could come up

403
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:53,820
with to a man in his late 50s she said I

404
00:19:01,250 --> 00:18:58,000
am getting the letter D she kept going

405
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:01,260
until it was apparent that the man knew

406
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:04,690
nobody who's fit okay how to get out of

407
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:10,450
this ah d stands for dad the initial H

408
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:13,450
to a lady also in the late 50s went with

409
00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:16,960
the blank who is H no response finally

410
00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:18,700
Valda said they're telling me you're a

411
00:19:24,270 --> 00:19:22,030
helper and many other similar examples

412
00:19:26,669 --> 00:19:24,280
yet the people in the audience were

413
00:19:30,659 --> 00:19:26,679
hanging on every word and clapping each

414
00:19:32,539 --> 00:19:30,669
time justification the justifications

415
00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:32,549
and excuses are quite real and

416
00:19:38,419 --> 00:19:36,190
reasonable to the believer anything no

417
00:19:42,180 --> 00:19:38,429
matter how far-fetched or outrageous

418
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:42,190
makes more sense than the unthinkable

419
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:44,530
that is that they could be wrong

420
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:46,720
this thought doesn't even enter their

421
00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:48,970
heads it flies in the face of everything

422
00:19:53,730 --> 00:19:51,400
they know and expect if there are any

423
00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:53,740
questions the justifications come back

424
00:19:58,410 --> 00:19:55,840
and break neck speed and the true

425
00:20:00,680 --> 00:19:58,420
believers are so good at it I found

426
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:00,690
myself using the term mental gymnastics

427
00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:04,000
when referring to this practice try as I

428
00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:06,990
might I just cannot come up with so many

429
00:20:13,770 --> 00:20:10,270
wacko justifications in such a short

430
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:13,780
amount of time as do the believers so I

431
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:16,720
must put it to you that the same route

432
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:18,970
processes that help the science fiction

433
00:20:24,570 --> 00:20:22,150
fan from losing the magic of their

434
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:24,580
favorite TV show by filling in any holes

435
00:20:30,030 --> 00:20:27,730
in the plot is in full swing to the true

436
00:20:33,660 --> 00:20:30,040
believer when also confronted with holes

437
00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:33,670
in their plot in this case holes in the

438
00:20:37,770 --> 00:20:36,100
very fabric of their reality the

439
00:20:41,310 --> 00:20:37,780
difference is the science fiction fan

440
00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:41,320
will willingly and knowingly suspend

441
00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:43,300
disbelief in order to make the fictional

442
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:46,390
world more and real and enjoyable the

443
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:48,490
belief has no need to suspend disbelief

444
00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:51,910
as there is no disbelief to begin with

445
00:20:57,810 --> 00:20:56,230
or if there ever was it is gone the

446
00:21:00,750 --> 00:20:57,820
first thing we might consider here is

447
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:00,760
self-preservation the mind doing its

448
00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:03,520
best to keep intact the worldview of its

449
00:21:07,740 --> 00:21:05,620
owner we cannot forget the role

450
00:21:09,330 --> 00:21:07,750
imagination place in this I would

451
00:21:12,570 --> 00:21:09,340
suspect the average psychic doing

452
00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:12,580
reading for playing clients convinced

453
00:21:17,670 --> 00:21:14,830
that their own powers would have a vivid

454
00:21:20,130 --> 00:21:17,680
imagination it would also certainly help

455
00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:20,140
in giving a good reading also the

456
00:21:24,210 --> 00:21:22,150
stronger the emotional attachment the

457
00:21:27,090 --> 00:21:24,220
more we see justifications playing a

458
00:21:29,670 --> 00:21:27,100
part if I were not a fan of Doctor Who I

459
00:21:31,470 --> 00:21:29,680
would not have given any thought coming

460
00:21:34,890 --> 00:21:31,480
up with my rationalization about the

461
00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:34,900
25-percent of infinity the doctor would

462
00:21:43,860 --> 00:21:40,750
not make an error woody and so we must

463
00:21:46,530 --> 00:21:43,870
realize that many people be they

464
00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:46,540
diviners psychics or clients are simply

465
00:21:50,370 --> 00:21:48,460
following their best judgment based on

466
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:50,380
what they know and expect to occur I

467
00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:52,870
reject the simple notion pushed by so

468
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:56,200
many Current Affair TV shows and tabloid

469
00:21:59,520 --> 00:21:57,760
newspapers

470
00:22:02,310 --> 00:21:59,530
now that's where suspension of disbelief

471
00:22:05,940 --> 00:22:02,320
comes in handy that people are either a

472
00:22:09,860 --> 00:22:05,950
in the case of psychics frauds and con

473
00:22:13,230 --> 00:22:09,870
sharks or be in the case of clients

474
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:13,240
idiots justification of holes on the

475
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:16,090
plot is a very human activity it gives

476
00:22:23,340 --> 00:22:19,150
us comfort and continuity you just gotta

477
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:23,350
know where to draw the line now getting

478
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:26,410
back to the musical score I mentioned at

479
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:29,170
the beginning at the end of my talk side

480
00:22:34,380 --> 00:22:31,020
then come back to the topic and say

481
00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:34,390
imagine imagine if somebody place up

482
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:35,470
music in front of you and you're

483
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:37,120
perfectly capable of playing it on the

484
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:40,960
piano and you started to play and all

485
00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:44,050
the notes were wrong in fact you had a

486
00:22:49,410 --> 00:22:46,630
bet writing and the bet was if you could

487
00:22:51,980 --> 00:22:49,420
play the piece of music adequately you

488
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:51,990
would get a hundred thousand dollars

489
00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:54,130
imagine then if it all went south and

490
00:22:59,300 --> 00:22:56,470
the notes were all wrong and it sounded

491
00:23:05,520 --> 00:22:59,310
terrible and you obviously couldn't play

492
00:23:07,770 --> 00:23:05,530
you would be struggling for a reason you

493
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:07,780
would be seeking a reason you must have

494
00:23:12,270 --> 00:23:09,760
a reason because you know you can play

495
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:12,280
the music you may well then conclude

496
00:23:17,790 --> 00:23:15,120
that the piano is a trick piano that

497
00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:17,800
you've been drugged that something else

498
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:20,440
fishy is going on well that's the same

499
00:23:24,750 --> 00:23:23,200
sort of thought processes that goes on

500
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:24,760
in the mind of the believer when their

501
00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:28,090
reality is challenged to the point where

502
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:30,270
it obviously is no longer working and

503
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:32,850
any of you who have been on

504
00:23:36,669 --> 00:23:34,930
investigations or tests that this sort

505
00:23:38,379 --> 00:23:36,679
will know what I mean

506
00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:38,389
that was holes in the plot from the

507
00:23:45,159 --> 00:23:42,049
paper given at the 2003 Australian

508
00:24:06,630 --> 00:23:45,169
skeptics national convention by Richard

509
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:11,100
the 22 with me may not

510
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:19,720
the thing with the back and the bit that

511
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:23,840
goes that's a good sound and in bunga

512
00:24:29,710 --> 00:24:26,690
bunga 22 you will find crank mail Frank

513
00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:29,720
my main odds bug out bag why not the

514
00:24:36,250 --> 00:24:33,769
burning social issue and of course Tim

515
00:24:38,380 --> 00:24:36,260
complains yet again and shows you how

516
00:24:40,419 --> 00:24:38,390
it's done that's right I'm always

517
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:40,429
telling people what are you tweeting for

518
00:24:44,110 --> 00:24:41,840
what are you writing a letter to the

519
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:44,120
editor what are you doing get on the

520
00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:48,110
phone if you want to be heard make it

521
00:24:53,409 --> 00:24:50,960
heard because someone has to waste their

522
00:24:56,980 --> 00:24:53,419
precious time listening to whatever it

523
00:24:59,980 --> 00:24:56,990
is that you're saying you're basically

524
00:25:08,210 --> 00:24:59,990
pretty stupid as opposed to just

525
00:25:15,740 --> 00:25:14,090
and I always wake up to this music no

526
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:15,750
wonder you leap out a bit like a gazelle

527
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:18,450
yeah you've got to keep moving relaxing

528
00:25:24,529 --> 00:25:21,049
is an idea that was developed in

529
00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:24,539
California that if you relax if you just

530
00:25:28,909 --> 00:25:27,150
let it go your life will somehow be

531
00:25:31,310 --> 00:25:28,919
enriched that your health will be

532
00:25:33,649 --> 00:25:31,320
improved I don't believe that I think

533
00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:33,659
life is for living and if you're not a

534
00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:35,460
little bit tired and a little bit

535
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:37,980
stressed at all times you're not doing

536
00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:42,210
enough and you're just spending too much

537
00:25:47,870 --> 00:25:45,270
time in your own head so get up off

538
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:47,880
whatever bench you're lying on naked and

539
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:50,880
go and do something for God's sake Tim's

540
00:25:58,279 --> 00:25:54,510
historical hypothetical today the date

541
00:26:00,590 --> 00:25:58,289
is the eighth of March 2014 I know what

542
00:26:04,010 --> 00:26:00,600
it is I know what it is the place is

543
00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:04,020
Kuala Lumpur International Airport no

544
00:26:09,409 --> 00:26:06,270
I'm not quite sure what it is you're the

545
00:26:14,779 --> 00:26:09,419
pilot of Malaysian Airlines flight 370

546
00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:14,789
you disappear what happened Tim well you

547
00:26:19,940 --> 00:26:17,460
know people talk about aliens and they

548
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:19,950
always roll their eyes the fact is they

549
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:21,809
are real and I've spoken to many pilots

550
00:26:26,899 --> 00:26:24,000
in the northwestern territory what

551
00:26:29,299 --> 00:26:26,909
happened was aliens took the plane

552
00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:29,309
because people have to accept that not

553
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:33,960
all alien vehicles fly very well and the

554
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:36,480
747 or whatever it was it's a very

555
00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:38,730
reliable vehicle so you're suggesting

556
00:26:42,169 --> 00:26:40,289
that they were after the in-flight movie

557
00:26:44,690 --> 00:26:42,179
oh yeah they're after the in-flight

558
00:26:46,820 --> 00:26:44,700
movie night at the museum two yeah it

559
00:26:49,810 --> 00:26:46,830
was aliens and I know that because I

560
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:49,820
read some really convincing theories on

561
00:27:03,210 --> 00:26:58,320
Google deal with it on Maynard calm do

562
00:27:22,989 --> 00:27:21,639
hey you a letter to the Oberon review

563
00:27:26,019 --> 00:27:22,999
published on the twenty-fifth of

564
00:27:29,169 --> 00:27:26,029
februari 2016 for your reference the

565
00:27:31,239 --> 00:27:29,179
place is referred to Oberon is about a

566
00:27:34,180 --> 00:27:31,249
hundred kilometres west of Sydney past

567
00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:34,190
Blue Mountains and wentworth falls is

568
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:36,169
about 50 kilometres west of Sydney in

569
00:27:43,779 --> 00:27:41,210
the Blue Mountains Oberon safe children

570
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:43,789
a year ago I moved from with mirthful

571
00:27:49,239 --> 00:27:45,919
Oberon distance the 40 kilometres in a

572
00:27:50,859 --> 00:27:49,249
straight line or about 80k by Road apart

573
00:27:52,869 --> 00:27:50,869
from fewer days with fog and more days

574
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,879
with snow there's a remarkable

575
00:27:58,570 --> 00:27:55,279
difference between the two towns the

576
00:27:59,649 --> 00:27:58,580
rates of childhood vaccination figures

577
00:28:01,210 --> 00:27:59,659
have been released this week by the

578
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:01,220
National Health performance authority

579
00:28:05,229 --> 00:28:02,690
showing the rate of vaccination in

580
00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:05,239
postcodes across the country the upper

581
00:28:09,310 --> 00:28:07,100
Blue Mountains has the third lowest rate

582
00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:09,320
in Australia behind the north coast of

583
00:28:13,779 --> 00:28:12,169
New South Wales and Parramatta the

584
00:28:15,789 --> 00:28:13,789
percentage of fully immunized children

585
00:28:19,269 --> 00:28:15,799
in the wentworth falls postcode for 12

586
00:28:21,580 --> 00:28:19,279
and five year olds with 79 8.9 percent

587
00:28:23,979 --> 00:28:21,590
80 point six percent and eighty six

588
00:28:26,259 --> 00:28:23,989
point eight percent respectively but

589
00:28:29,470 --> 00:28:26,269
note that these are the figures 4 2014 4

590
00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:29,480
2015 the rates may improve following

591
00:28:33,399 --> 00:28:30,440
recent changes to legislation

592
00:28:34,690 --> 00:28:33,409
restricting access to childcare and

593
00:28:38,139 --> 00:28:34,700
certain government benefits for

594
00:28:39,519 --> 00:28:38,149
unvaccinated children the good news is

595
00:28:44,049 --> 00:28:39,529
that the rates for those three groups at

596
00:28:47,619 --> 00:28:44,059
oberon and 93.1 percent 92.7 percent and

597
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:47,629
ninety three point zero percent parents

598
00:28:50,529 --> 00:28:48,799
of children and oberon should be

599
00:28:51,879 --> 00:28:50,539
congratulated for the responsible way

600
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:51,889
that they care for the health of their

601
00:28:55,419 --> 00:28:53,570
children and to the health of children

602
00:28:58,899 --> 00:28:55,429
who for reasons of age or medical

603
00:29:00,430 --> 00:28:58,909
condition cannot be vaccinated it has

604
00:29:02,109 --> 00:29:00,440
always amazed me that there are people

605
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:02,119
who deny the benefits of vaccination

606
00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:04,159
which are cited in refrigeration and the

607
00:29:07,899 --> 00:29:06,230
provision of clean water to save more

608
00:29:11,409 --> 00:29:07,909
lives than any other invention in human

609
00:29:12,940 --> 00:29:11,419
history the influence of vaccine denies

610
00:29:15,010 --> 00:29:12,950
has been declining over the last few

611
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:15,020
years and the practice of media

612
00:29:19,270 --> 00:29:16,730
when soliciting comments from a knee

613
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:19,280
vaccination campaigners on any vaccine

614
00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:22,450
related issue is almost extinct

615
00:29:26,410 --> 00:29:24,590
unfortunately one outlet gave a voice to

616
00:29:28,810 --> 00:29:26,420
someone with an anti-vaccine agenda to

617
00:29:31,180 --> 00:29:28,820
comment on those new numbers she was

618
00:29:33,460 --> 00:29:31,190
introduced as mother of four vaccine

619
00:29:35,020 --> 00:29:33,470
damaged children but she forgot to

620
00:29:37,210 --> 00:29:35,030
mention that she has lost the president

621
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:37,220
of Australia's most prominent vociferous

622
00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:40,490
anti-vaccination organization a pair of

623
00:29:44,860 --> 00:29:41,750
this detail wasn't thought to be

624
00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:44,870
important I hope I live to see the day

625
00:29:48,970 --> 00:29:46,760
when these people aren't simply ignored

626
00:29:51,820 --> 00:29:48,980
and subjected to the ridicule that they

627
00:29:53,470 --> 00:29:51,830
deserve again congratulations to the

628
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:53,480
parents of the children of oberon you

629
00:29:58,980 --> 00:29:57,050
are doing the right thing and you can

630
00:30:04,330 --> 00:29:58,990
check out more of Peters rating at

631
00:30:07,180 --> 00:30:04,340
ratbags com the popular web site where

632
00:30:10,770 --> 00:30:07,190
Peter expresses his views in no

633
00:30:27,090 --> 00:30:10,780
uncertain terms worth a read ratbags

634
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:29,250
today this is dr. Kyle Kyle Chris let's

635
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:30,610
keep proud to be a skeptic and you can

636
00:30:43,010 --> 00:30:32,770
find out more about me at dr. Carl calm

637
00:30:50,460 --> 00:30:46,460
good thinking investigations

638
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:50,470
chiropractic in 2008 the British

639
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:53,650
Chiropractic Association unsuccessfully

640
00:30:58,350 --> 00:30:56,080
sued science writer Simon Singh for

641
00:31:00,690 --> 00:30:58,360
highlighting that there is no reliable

642
00:31:04,020 --> 00:31:00,700
evidence that chiropractic can treat

643
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:04,030
colic six years later we wanted to find

644
00:31:08,779 --> 00:31:06,250
out whether chiropractors would still

645
00:31:12,029 --> 00:31:08,789
treat babies suffering from college

646
00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:12,039
hello yeah I'm gonna help you write your

647
00:31:16,169 --> 00:31:14,230
colleagues said that you treat babies

648
00:31:18,299 --> 00:31:16,179
and i was wondering this firm if you

649
00:31:21,659 --> 00:31:18,309
could help with with the problems that

650
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:21,669
mother for boys got them right it's just

651
00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:25,210
being very unsettled for quite a few

652
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:27,580
weeks now particularly in the evenings

653
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:30,850
yeah this kind of squirming about

654
00:31:36,990 --> 00:31:34,799
arching his back crying the unpaid

655
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:37,000
including pity or something like this

656
00:31:41,250 --> 00:31:39,250
well i have spoken to the health

657
00:31:44,490 --> 00:31:41,260
visitors and in these settings like well

658
00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:44,500
babies babies do cry and it'll grow out

659
00:31:50,039 --> 00:31:47,230
of it and I feel like they're not really

660
00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:50,049
not really listening what we will do is

661
00:31:55,020 --> 00:31:52,240
find out generally them but what kind of

662
00:31:59,460 --> 00:31:55,030
a birthing process it was not on TV well

663
00:32:02,730 --> 00:31:59,470
it was quite a long labor but got an in

664
00:32:05,669 --> 00:32:02,740
the end had to have a section right if

665
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:05,679
we could quite often this is the issue

666
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:09,010
would the way did the bay how old is

667
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:12,610
baby now yes sir eight weeks eight and a

668
00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:15,760
half weeks our house and a lot of it

669
00:32:20,820 --> 00:32:17,950
would stem from them the birthing

670
00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:20,830
procedure itself a lot of problems at

671
00:32:24,990 --> 00:32:22,390
the connector and now because of them

672
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:25,000
modern medicine that they don't want to

673
00:32:31,140 --> 00:32:28,210
do it the natural way and and they are

674
00:32:34,049 --> 00:32:31,150
fold they dig they want to make sure

675
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:34,059
that the bringing the baby out when

676
00:32:39,299 --> 00:32:35,440
you're making sure that you're you're

677
00:32:40,889 --> 00:32:39,309
safe as well and that actually has from

678
00:32:42,690 --> 00:32:40,899
the chiropractor perspective

679
00:32:44,489 --> 00:32:42,700
you issues attached to it because of how

680
00:32:48,779 --> 00:32:44,499
that actually bringing the baby out of

681
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,789
you and that usually stems from the

682
00:32:51,749 --> 00:32:50,559
beginning of what the problem is macaire

683
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:51,759
fact there would have a little look

684
00:32:55,139 --> 00:32:53,529
through that go through the history go

685
00:32:57,239 --> 00:32:55,149
through the different lots of different

686
00:32:59,399 --> 00:32:57,249
things from there and then then give

687
00:33:01,259 --> 00:32:59,409
some diagnosis from there on in I mean

688
00:33:03,409 --> 00:33:01,269
there's not much I can't turn back the

689
00:33:05,759 --> 00:33:03,419
clock you know it would rot no worse

690
00:33:09,299 --> 00:33:05,769
what's happened has happened you know

691
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:09,309
just to put in the picture of after the

692
00:33:14,339 --> 00:33:11,710
treatment because it's such a known baby

693
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:14,349
now the chiropractor here has been there

694
00:33:17,940 --> 00:33:16,089
dealing with babies for those younger's

695
00:33:19,499 --> 00:33:17,950
one week when we've had them as soon as

696
00:33:21,479 --> 00:33:19,509
they've earned come out of hospital the

697
00:33:23,129 --> 00:33:21,489
patients have brought them in and we've

698
00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:23,139
had of chested them they've got them all

699
00:33:27,539 --> 00:33:25,809
right and all our patients when they

700
00:33:29,549 --> 00:33:27,549
were presently completed they all bring

701
00:33:32,219 --> 00:33:29,559
the baby into get half a quick look and

702
00:33:34,859 --> 00:33:32,229
quick get chicks over and then there's

703
00:33:37,589 --> 00:33:34,869
always something that when we actually

704
00:33:40,169 --> 00:33:37,599
help them with so you do see them from

705
00:33:43,499 --> 00:33:40,179
from a very young age it would eight

706
00:33:45,649 --> 00:33:43,509
weeks be unusually young no I would say

707
00:33:48,209 --> 00:33:45,659
is probably about seven weeks too late

708
00:33:49,649 --> 00:33:48,219
some of the patients that we've had from

709
00:33:52,529 --> 00:33:49,659
those had babies have brought the

710
00:33:54,029 --> 00:33:52,539
mainland and a seven day 10 from this

711
00:33:56,099 --> 00:33:54,039
kennel but more or less as soon as

712
00:33:58,049 --> 00:33:56,109
they've been released when we hadn't we

713
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:58,059
we had a couple of midwives in that was

714
00:34:02,249 --> 00:34:00,159
seeing as a couple of years ago and we

715
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:02,259
had a stream of David after we found

716
00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:04,450
that after the midwives understood what

717
00:34:08,609 --> 00:34:05,950
we're about and understood the whole

718
00:34:11,099 --> 00:34:08,619
procedure of how we did it and why we

719
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:11,109
did it we got loads and loads of babies

720
00:34:15,269 --> 00:34:13,599
that were coming in but you've got to be

721
00:34:18,450 --> 00:34:15,279
pretty open to it some people are not

722
00:34:21,450 --> 00:34:18,460
the character here herself I've never

723
00:34:23,279 --> 00:34:21,460
had any in meditation I can example her

724
00:34:25,919 --> 00:34:23,289
children haven't had any medication

725
00:34:28,529 --> 00:34:25,929
never have any injections or anything

726
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:28,539
like that and they're all okay it

727
00:34:33,569 --> 00:34:30,639
depends upon the app there so they're

728
00:34:35,279 --> 00:34:33,579
not had the room have the jobs no

729
00:34:38,129 --> 00:34:35,289
there's mice it's just coming up for the

730
00:34:39,539 --> 00:34:38,139
first for the first half chaps actually

731
00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:39,549
and I mean that's another thing I'm

732
00:34:43,409 --> 00:34:41,529
worried about see honest there's a lot

733
00:34:46,379 --> 00:34:43,419
of them there's a lot of scaremongering

734
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:46,389
goes on with regards to what you should

735
00:34:50,099 --> 00:34:48,490
be having and yeah he's just heard

736
00:34:52,379 --> 00:34:50,109
different things from different people

737
00:34:54,089 --> 00:34:52,389
all the time no

738
00:34:56,309 --> 00:34:54,099
reason for it to go the babies are

739
00:34:58,769 --> 00:34:56,319
coming in everything gets looked after

740
00:35:00,420 --> 00:34:58,779
we are fine your care which means

741
00:35:02,099 --> 00:35:00,430
there's lots and lots of different rules

742
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,109
and regulations in accordance with our

743
00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:04,720
governmental legislation I have to

744
00:35:10,259 --> 00:35:06,630
follow it's not like you go into some

745
00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:10,269
backstreet kind of a quarter here it's a

746
00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:11,950
wishes primary care that we're dealing

747
00:35:19,049 --> 00:35:14,980
with and so can we just can we just call

748
00:35:22,759 --> 00:35:19,059
in no and we're seeing approximately an

749
00:35:25,259 --> 00:35:22,769
80 to 100 M hundred patients a day here

750
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:25,269
very very busy well that you have to

751
00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:28,210
book in right over time take it from

752
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,529
there al chiropractic clinic suggested

753
00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:34,720
that colic can be caused by a

754
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:37,839
problematic labor or even a cesarean

755
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:40,480
section we were told that the

756
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:42,970
chiropractor would routinely treat

757
00:35:50,009 --> 00:35:46,089
babies as young as one week old and that

758
00:35:53,490 --> 00:35:50,019
eight weeks old is quote seven weeks too

759
00:35:56,430 --> 00:35:53,500
late and quote it was implied that

760
00:35:58,410 --> 00:35:56,440
vaccination is unnecessary and that

761
00:36:02,339 --> 00:35:58,420
chiropractic could reduce the need for

762
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:02,349
medication we have shared our findings

763
00:36:07,499 --> 00:36:04,960
with the general chiropractic Council as

764
00:36:09,630 --> 00:36:07,509
part of the formal complaint we will

765
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:09,640
also be calling other chiropractors to

766
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:12,450
see whether they would treat colleague

767
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:15,369
investigator laura thompson editor matt

768
00:36:22,740 --> 00:36:20,049
white music bend sound ww been sound

769
00:36:25,650 --> 00:36:22,750
calm to find out more about the good

770
00:36:29,220 --> 00:36:25,660
thinking society visit good thinking

771
00:36:54,740 --> 00:36:29,230
society org we'll follow them on twitter

772
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,290
CS top simply yet hey Sal you guys guys

773
00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:00,640
I just had the most amazing experience

774
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:02,710
what experience on dust under steady

775
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:04,330
been to the pub children not hang out

776
00:37:08,490 --> 00:37:06,490
with mash you know he was blessed by

777
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:08,500
peter Popoff no yellow no i'm not

778
00:37:13,530 --> 00:37:11,440
talking about psychics it was a really

779
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:13,540
SP experience now you have been to the

780
00:37:17,970 --> 00:37:15,280
pub either that or you've been smoking

781
00:37:20,430 --> 00:37:17,980
something no punters the ESB is the

782
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:20,440
European skeptics podcast it's the most

783
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:22,810
amazing thing you get to know so much

784
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:24,400
about skeptics and their activities

785
00:37:29,370 --> 00:37:27,280
across Europe you know events hot topics

786
00:37:31,590 --> 00:37:29,380
and interviews with lots of interesting

787
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:31,600
people oh wow cool by the way pointers

788
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:33,340
you just committed the false dichotomy

789
00:37:38,610 --> 00:37:35,770
fallacy I guess that means I'm really

790
00:37:40,620 --> 00:37:38,620
wrong yep and you can even learn about

791
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:40,630
those fallacies in the show and hear

792
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:43,090
about people spreading silly ideas you

793
00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:45,370
should really check it out it's the ESP

794
00:37:51,060 --> 00:37:48,340
the European skeptics podcast it's on

795
00:37:53,370 --> 00:37:51,070
never weak alright so where can I get

796
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:53,380
this is the experience it sounds good

797
00:37:59,100 --> 00:37:56,050
you can go online at the ESP do to you

798
00:38:02,160 --> 00:37:59,110
follow it on twitter at es podcast

799
00:38:04,290 --> 00:38:02,170
underscore EU or like the podcast on

800
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:04,300
facebook oh and you can also contact the

801
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:07,330
show by sending them an email to info at

802
00:38:13,230 --> 00:38:11,170
the ESPE you and if you want to

803
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:13,240
subscribe do a quick search for the

804
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:15,970
european skeptic podcast on soundcloud

805
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:18,770
itunes or stitcher

806
00:38:39,010 --> 00:38:36,880
Australian skeptics skeptics in the pub

807
00:38:40,570 --> 00:38:39,020
at the crown hotel in Sydney the corner

808
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:40,580
of Elizabeth and Goldman streets in the

809
00:38:47,110 --> 00:38:43,610
city near museum station Thursday the

810
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:47,120
third of March at six pm it's dr. Brad

811
00:38:53,230 --> 00:38:49,970
McCoy and he'll be talking about Lyme

812
00:38:56,350 --> 00:38:53,240
disease Lyme disease is a controversial

813
00:38:58,350 --> 00:38:56,360
topic in Australia public understanding

814
00:39:01,440 --> 00:38:58,360
has veered away from science and

815
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:01,450
everyone is feeling perplexed

816
00:39:08,140 --> 00:39:05,690
self-proclaimed Lyme disease experts are

817
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:08,150
popping up and Ozzy's are increasingly

818
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:11,680
being diagnosed with Lyme everyday

819
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:13,970
pathology tests can be expensive and

820
00:39:19,090 --> 00:39:16,370
misleading while pseudo-scientific

821
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:19,100
treatments can do a lot more harm than

822
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:21,650
good let's try and get some clarity on

823
00:39:27,730 --> 00:39:24,800
lyme disease in australia dr. brad is a

824
00:39:29,980 --> 00:39:27,740
GP and TV host of embarrassing bodies

825
00:39:32,620 --> 00:39:29,990
down under a television show dedicated

826
00:39:34,510 --> 00:39:32,630
to decreasing the stigma of medical

827
00:39:37,810 --> 00:39:34,520
problems and increasing awareness of

828
00:39:39,540 --> 00:39:37,820
traditionally taboo topics he has an

829
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:39,550
impressive background in medicine

830
00:39:44,050 --> 00:39:41,690
accepted into medicine at monash

831
00:39:47,620 --> 00:39:44,060
university when he was only 16 years old

832
00:39:51,790 --> 00:39:47,630
what good grief and started working as a

833
00:39:54,940 --> 00:39:51,800
doctor at the age of 21 good have it 21

834
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:54,950
what was I doing computer work I should

835
00:39:58,540 --> 00:39:56,810
have been a doctor he has been working

836
00:40:00,400 --> 00:39:58,550
in general practice for the last 10

837
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:00,410
years and regularly tackles the tough

838
00:40:05,980 --> 00:40:03,290
and often embarrassing questions from

839
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:05,990
his patients helping to find clarity in

840
00:40:11,530 --> 00:40:09,170
a room filled world he is also folks a

841
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:11,540
member a committee member of the

842
00:40:15,610 --> 00:40:13,250
Australian skeptics here in New South

843
00:40:18,260 --> 00:40:15,620
Wales so that's Sidney's skeptics in the

844
00:40:42,370 --> 00:40:18,270
pub Thursday the third of March

845
00:40:49,340 --> 00:40:45,710
as reported at The Daily Telegraph Daily

846
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:49,350
Telegraph dot-com day you by Jane Hansen

847
00:40:56,180 --> 00:40:52,890
an opinion piece an alternative universe

848
00:41:00,190 --> 00:40:56,190
where vaccines the villain not the hero

849
00:41:03,770 --> 00:41:00,200
published februari 28 2016 mullumbimby

850
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:03,780
has the lowest vaccination rate in

851
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:06,570
Australia only one and two children have

852
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:08,640
been vaccinated there it was at the

853
00:41:15,110 --> 00:41:12,330
epicenter of the 2009 2012 whooping

854
00:41:17,690 --> 00:41:15,120
cough epidemic that claimed the lives of

855
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:17,700
two babies in the area but now many of

856
00:41:24,410 --> 00:41:20,220
the town's inhabitants have a problem

857
00:41:26,210 --> 00:41:24,420
with the new no jab no pay laws that

858
00:41:28,430 --> 00:41:26,220
strip benefits from those who refuse to

859
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:28,440
vaccinate their children at a meeting

860
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:31,170
last Sunday called quote mandatory

861
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:34,410
vaccinations end quote the 300 or so

862
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,170
attendees did not come to hear quote the

863
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:38,880
medical and scientific facts about

864
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:42,210
vaccines and quote as billed this was

865
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:44,690
not offered any way they came for

866
00:41:49,370 --> 00:41:47,610
validation to indulge their conspiracy

867
00:41:50,900 --> 00:41:49,380
theories and to Pat each other on the

868
00:41:53,420 --> 00:41:50,910
back for the area's fifty percent

869
00:41:56,030 --> 00:41:53,430
vaccination rate the lowest in the

870
00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:56,040
country this they think is because they

871
00:42:01,330 --> 00:41:59,010
are quote more conscientious end quote

872
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:01,340
and the rest of us quote she Paul

873
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:04,290
Lambert smarter than ninety-nine point

874
00:42:09,410 --> 00:42:06,330
nine percent of the world's scientific

875
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:09,420
and medical communities and attuned to

876
00:42:14,690 --> 00:42:12,000
the worldwide plot to depopulate the

877
00:42:16,490 --> 00:42:14,700
human race from the moment the meeting

878
00:42:19,310 --> 00:42:16,500
was opened with mullin min be introduced

879
00:42:21,890 --> 00:42:19,320
as quote the black sheep capital of the

880
00:42:24,290 --> 00:42:21,900
country when quote to wallop laws you

881
00:42:27,530 --> 00:42:24,300
knew all had guzzled from the chai

882
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:27,540
infused kool-aid inside I was

883
00:42:32,210 --> 00:42:29,520
transported into a patchouli cented

884
00:42:34,820 --> 00:42:32,220
steamy alternative universe or all

885
00:42:37,220 --> 00:42:34,830
rationale was suspended and replaced by

886
00:42:40,070 --> 00:42:37,230
terrifying plots by big government

887
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:40,080
big farmer big media and even bigger

888
00:42:45,470 --> 00:42:43,170
airline or colluding to pin kids down

889
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:45,480
and stick them full of cancer-causing

890
00:42:52,670 --> 00:42:49,530
nasties the quote expert panel end quote

891
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:52,680
had none instead the usual suspects

892
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:54,960
fronted up merrill dory the former

893
00:42:59,690 --> 00:42:56,850
president of the disgraced australian

894
00:43:02,210 --> 00:42:59,700
vaccinations skeptics network and the

895
00:43:05,630 --> 00:43:02,220
new president Tasha David were on hand

896
00:43:08,060 --> 00:43:05,640
to quote prove and quote that Australia

897
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:08,070
was a quote testing ground for the rest

898
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:11,280
of the world and quota a paralegal not a

899
00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:14,010
lawyer suggested everyone write a letter

900
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:16,920
of complaint asking for a review of the

901
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:21,090
new node jab no pay laws and quote this

902
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:23,970
would collapse the system man quote then

903
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:26,880
naturopath brett Smith who introduced

904
00:43:32,090 --> 00:43:30,000
himself as quote a Sydney quack and

905
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:32,100
quote suggested people tell their

906
00:43:37,340 --> 00:43:33,690
doctors that their children are

907
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:37,350
sensitive to gelatin or yeast because

908
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:40,490
that may be a quote medical

909
00:43:45,230 --> 00:43:43,290
contraindication unquote which is now

910
00:43:47,570 --> 00:43:45,240
the only exemption allowed to claim

911
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:47,580
family tax benefits without vaccinating

912
00:43:52,190 --> 00:43:49,650
quote if you show your child is

913
00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:52,200
hypersensitive to gelatin your child

914
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:54,420
should get a medical exemption end quote

915
00:43:59,390 --> 00:43:57,180
he said van kathy scarborough from

916
00:44:01,609 --> 00:43:59,400
vaccine information South Australia got

917
00:44:04,070 --> 00:44:01,619
up and told everyone quote we have

918
00:44:07,310 --> 00:44:04,080
children diagnosed with diabetes asthma

919
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:07,320
and autism men quote and this was all

920
00:44:13,820 --> 00:44:10,650
due to vaccines there was not one shred

921
00:44:16,250 --> 00:44:13,830
of legitimate science that backs up any

922
00:44:19,130 --> 00:44:16,260
of those claims the fraudulent Wakefield

923
00:44:21,710 --> 00:44:19,140
paper from 1997 linking autism to

924
00:44:23,180 --> 00:44:21,720
vaccination has now been debunked by

925
00:44:26,210 --> 00:44:23,190
hundreds of studies that were done in

926
00:44:29,330 --> 00:44:26,220
its wake to investigate but here junk

927
00:44:31,790 --> 00:44:29,340
science ruled the day next up a woman

928
00:44:34,609 --> 00:44:31,800
stood up and said her child was recently

929
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:34,619
vaccine injured as a result of the node

930
00:44:39,260 --> 00:44:37,290
jab no pay she had taken her

931
00:44:41,930 --> 00:44:39,270
three-year-old to a doctor in December

932
00:44:43,930 --> 00:44:41,940
with bronchitis and had decided to put

933
00:44:47,150 --> 00:44:43,940
her on a vaccination ketchup schedule

934
00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:47,160
through tears she said five days later

935
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:50,880
her child had quote bumps and rashes and

936
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:54,450
up her almond milk and quote the child

937
00:44:59,630 --> 00:44:57,690
was diagnosed with HSP which is an

938
00:45:02,450 --> 00:44:59,640
immune response to a virus or a

939
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:02,460
bacterium this she said was due to the

940
00:45:05,930 --> 00:45:04,170
vaccines even though the medical

941
00:45:08,569 --> 00:45:05,940
literature documents that in two-thirds

942
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:08,579
of cases a respiratory infection had

943
00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:10,140
preceded it but it was not the

944
00:45:15,740 --> 00:45:12,569
bronchitis of course it was the dreaded

945
00:45:18,829 --> 00:45:15,750
vaccines she then told everyone it was

946
00:45:21,249 --> 00:45:18,839
clearing up which HSP does naturally

947
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:21,259
because she was giving her toddler

948
00:45:28,579 --> 00:45:25,890
cannabis oil in at insha natural or not

949
00:45:32,029 --> 00:45:28,589
cannabis is a drug but this was met with

950
00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:32,039
applause for her genius then dr. Riemer

951
00:45:36,859 --> 00:45:33,960
lie about joining the meeting via Skype

952
00:45:39,170 --> 00:45:36,869
from Chile the American GP told everyone

953
00:45:40,609 --> 00:45:39,180
that vaccines were nothing but quote a

954
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:40,619
marketing tool to make the

955
00:45:46,700 --> 00:45:42,930
pharmaceutical companies rich and quote

956
00:45:50,089 --> 00:45:46,710
unquote to create you as a customer end

957
00:45:52,970 --> 00:45:50,099
quote and that if it is clear science

958
00:45:55,390 --> 00:45:52,980
that injecting pus and poisons prevents

959
00:45:58,190 --> 00:45:55,400
no disease and cures no disease in quote

960
00:46:00,680 --> 00:45:58,200
again these hysterical claims were met

961
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:00,690
with applause what hurts the mullen

962
00:46:06,490 --> 00:46:03,359
maybe a lot the most is that no jab no

963
00:46:08,660 --> 00:46:06,500
play / pay is starting to work

964
00:46:11,660 --> 00:46:08,670
conscientious objector numbers reduced

965
00:46:13,789 --> 00:46:11,670
by twenty-five percent in one year and

966
00:46:16,549 --> 00:46:13,799
even the rates of vaccination in mulund

967
00:46:20,779 --> 00:46:16,559
me be so still ridiculously low have

968
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:20,789
risen more than ten percent maybe lunacy

969
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:23,609
has had its day and that comes to you

970
00:46:45,020 --> 00:46:26,930
from Jane Hansen and published at ww

971
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:48,570
hi this is Heidi Robertson from the

972
00:46:53,390 --> 00:46:50,490
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

973
00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:53,400
we are a group of concerned citizens

974
00:46:58,560 --> 00:46:55,990
dedicated to promoting good science and

975
00:47:01,620 --> 00:46:58,570
common sense in our region the far north

976
00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:01,630
coast of New South Wales this area are

977
00:47:06,420 --> 00:47:03,430
famous for its natural beauty and

978
00:47:10,050 --> 00:47:06,430
relaxed lifestyle also has the lowest

979
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:10,060
rates of vaccination in Australia we are

980
00:47:14,550 --> 00:47:12,130
out to change that by challenging the

981
00:47:16,020 --> 00:47:14,560
myths and misinformation and by

982
00:47:19,530 --> 00:47:16,030
providing good evidence-based

983
00:47:21,390 --> 00:47:19,540
information to the community we'd love

984
00:47:25,020 --> 00:47:21,400
for you no matter where you are in the

985
00:47:32,610 --> 00:47:25,030
world to join our fight please visit our

986
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:32,620
webpage at ww nrvs info we also have a

987
00:47:39,780 --> 00:47:35,440
link there to our Facebook page tweet us

988
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:39,790
at in our faqs supporters that's vix and

989
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:42,370
check us out on Wikipedia by searching

990
00:48:02,830 --> 00:47:45,040
for Northern Rivers vaccination

991
00:48:06,740 --> 00:48:05,150
thank you for listening to the skeptic

992
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:06,750
zone our little note for people who have

993
00:48:11,540 --> 00:48:08,850
been following me on Twitter or Facebook

994
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:11,550
or you might have noticed the skeptic

995
00:48:17,300 --> 00:48:14,930
zone has changed format a bit recently

996
00:48:18,530 --> 00:48:17,310
yeah certain matters have come up which

997
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:18,540
have demanded a lot of my attention

998
00:48:25,930 --> 00:48:23,040
lately some stuff that where we all have

999
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:25,940
to work through from time to time and

1000
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:29,250
thank you to everybody for your patience

1001
00:48:33,860 --> 00:48:31,140
if I'm not answering your emails

1002
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:33,870
promptly sometimes there's quite a delay

1003
00:48:38,990 --> 00:48:36,960
it's because I am well quite busy doing

1004
00:48:42,110 --> 00:48:39,000
other things at the moment but luckily I

1005
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:42,120
still find time to churn out the skeptic

1006
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:44,640
zone and I couldn't do that without the

1007
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:46,290
help of my dear reporters Maynard and

1008
00:48:51,590 --> 00:48:49,440
hide in Iran and Joe alabaster and dr.

1009
00:48:54,020 --> 00:48:51,600
'he all do what they can when they can

1010
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:54,030
and I appreciate it very much I hope to

1011
00:48:57,770 --> 00:48:56,250
see you regardless i hope i'll be there

1012
00:48:59,360 --> 00:48:57,780
and if i am there i hope to see you at

1013
00:49:01,760 --> 00:48:59,370
skeptics in the pub as you heard in the

1014
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:01,770
skeptic zone here in sydney this coming

1015
00:49:06,350 --> 00:49:03,450
week and I certainly look forward to

1016
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:06,360
cooler weather please please send cooler

1017
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:09,180
weather those people up in there am up

1018
00:49:12,860 --> 00:49:10,800
in the northern hemisphere please send

1019
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:12,870
me some of your snow I would appreciate

1020
00:49:17,540 --> 00:49:15,930
it oh yes bad fur this week well this

1021
00:49:24,110 --> 00:49:17,550
week this is Richard Saunders signing

1022
00:49:25,780 --> 00:49:24,120
off from Sydney Australia you've been

1023
00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:25,790
listening to the skeptics own podcast

1024
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:29,310
visit our website at wwc a petting zoo

1025
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:32,370
TV for contacts an archive of all

1026
00:49:38,540 --> 00:49:36,240
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1027
00:49:41,260 --> 00:49:38,550
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1028
00:49:44,270 --> 00:49:41,270
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1029
00:49:47,330 --> 00:49:44,280
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1030
00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:47,340
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1031
00:49:53,180 --> 00:49:50,190
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1032
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:53,190
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1033
00:49:56,570 --> 00:49:54,930
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1034
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:56,580
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1035
00:50:00,620 --> 00:49:59,040
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1036
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:00,630
necessarily those of Australian